TKS:
Da Wu, can I take you back to 1980 when you returned to Singapore after almost a decade of absence, residing in the United Kingdom where you were studying and developing your methods and character. Can you recall sufficiently to tell us what changes of activity in the art community had taken place during the 1970s, when you left and returned?

TDW:
I left in September 1970 and returned in 79 just before Christmas, that is after nine years of absence. I think in the arts there were not many changes really. The Art Museum was still being set up, asking for donations of art. There was no such thing as buying art. And local art exhibitions were still quite the same as when I was in Singapore during the '60s and '70s. Some art societies organised shows; one or two Hong Kong artists showed here and Malaysian artists as well. Not many one-person shows by Singaporean artists.

TKS:
Where were these shows held customarily?

TDW:
There were about three venues that were available for shows: Chinese Chamber of Commerce, the National Library Annexe which was a little hall, for hire at $70 per day. Then the biggest, the grandest, was Victoria Memorial Hall which was usually used by art societies for their annual shows.

TKS:
Were there artists practising or producing sculptures during that decade, that you knew of?

TDW:
Yes, of course there were. During the Art Society's annual show occasionally you saw some sculptures, for instance Lim Nang Seng; he always displayed some works. There was another young man; he is not doing much now as I have not seen his work; his name is Lim Pang Ho, probably you have not heard of him.

TKS:
No.

TDW:
He carved wood and very beautifully, I don't know, he just disappeared. Of course Eng Teng and Beng Chong. Beng Chong did lots of sculptures in the '60s and '70s and I don't know why not much now. And when we say sculpture the first person who comes to my mind is Beng Chong. Then there was Lim Yew Kuan who occasionally displayed one or two heads in shows. That's about it. Also Yeo Hwee Bin; he is, I would say, the teacher of sculpture in Singapore; lots of people learnt sculpture from Yeo Hwee Bin.

TKS:
Did you too?

TDW:
Not directly, but by seeing his work, I was influenced.

TKS:
Let's now get to 1980. You returned and you inaugurated a show, well, it was more than a show, in the sense that it not just displayed things to be viewed visually, but an entire connected process. And from all accounts it opened up a new frontier. Can you tell us something about the motivations behind that engagement in 1980, and some of the processes that you inaugurated?

TDW:
So I came back in '79 for Christmas and everything was so exciting after nine years of absence. Everything was new. I also felt that my senses were keener, more sensitive. One of the things that made me want to find out more was the fact that all the villages were gone. As early as the '80s the villages began to vanish. We lived in Sembawang Road Estate. They began to build Ang Mo Kio Town, and all those familiar places and kampongs disappeared; the land and its vegetation was cleared. So I began to visit those demolished sites and the new building sites and discovered lots of things. There the earthworks began. One of the obvious things I discovered was that without vegetation the earth would be washed away and the land would deteriorate quickly. In no time gullies formed and then even a river appeared. So I began to record this process. I lay white curtains into shallow gullies and watched them gradually getting bigger and bigger; and these curtains actually recorded that process. And there are other things; for instance the heavy rain during the monsoon season contributed towards the artwork series and so did strong sunlight. The heat and the light also were important components in the process.

TKS:
Art has moved out from its traditional realm in the studio and out into the actual environment. Art is no longer only preoccupied with the employment of graphic, pictorial elements. This certainly has completely altered the dimensions of art making in Singapore. Were these aims always with you or were they the outcome of your residence and study in England, bearing in mind the changes in that country as far as art was concerned?

TDW:
I will have to go a little further back in time. In Singapore I used to go to the British Council Library a lot and there discovered Henry Moore; that is one of the reasons why I chose to go to England to study. So during my foundation year I made arrangements with my tutors to visit the great man. But in the meanwhile, during the first six months of foundation studies I discovered there were more and better artists at work and better works were produced. I did not want to waste my time with Moore and called off the arrangement. I had lots of questions about Henry Moore now; so I did not go to see him. From then on began the period of questions and it has gone on to now. I come from a Chinese education background; I learnt Chinese calligraphy and Chinese painting before going away. So when I arrived in England and saw Western works I was initially confused; it was troublesome. How was I to regard or accept these new or fresh things? And there came more questions; I got into this habit of questioning things. Artwork is one thing; and then there is life, things to see, people to meet, things happening in society; they are all part of everyday life. So I became more aware of the environment around me and began to learn to deal with it. I stayed in Birmingham for four years. During my first year there were two garbage collectors' strikes and it provoked my art research; these black bags of rubbish were huge, like mountains, they reminded me of crystals and appeared to me as sources of energy. I collected the bags and began to play with them and I came out with a few statements regarding the way we package things. I packed them like Chinese dumplings; it was like giving them new life. These big dumplings were about 5 to 7 cubic feet and they were all transparent so you could see what was inside. That led me into recycling materials, and to an awareness of the preciousness or value of materials and the natural environment. And so I did the Chinese dumplings; I also did big sausages as another package of about 25 feet long. I began sorting materials as they do in the post office. All plastics formed one group, all the paper and cardboard in one group, and so on. These were all discarded waste; but now no longer because I had used them and I love that idea. So lots of my work has to do with looking around, just working with found materials.

TKS:
There are a number of interesting features in this disclosure. For instance you use packaging and recycling; you use materials that are discarded and re-use them. These are all strange processes when compared with Henry Moore and your initial fascination with his sculpture. These are processes so far removed from Henry Moore's practice. Can we move on to a central, although difficult question to answer: what is sculpture?

Having been here all these years, come to terms with these diverse pulls, on the one hand Asian traditions and on the other practices and values that originated in the West and whose basis is still in the West? Is it any easier now?

TDW:
No. No. It is getting more complicated everyday. More and more complicated. When I arrived in England I was very confused by all the artworks I saw. They were all amazing and I learnt a lot from them, but at the same time they were very confusing. There emerged a lot of questions. They are two separate worlds; there is no way of communication between them. The questions and confusion are getting more and more every day in me. I used to say to my Western friends that the Chinese were very much in tune with nature and that they worked with nature and that Westerners tended to conquer nature, destroying it. And then when I discovered that the Chinese coveted the rhino's horn and the penis of the tiger I saw that those claims were not true so I began to question all these through my activities. Now I really doubt that Chinese are as benevolent or harmonious with nature as I thought. So I questioned and out of that emerged my statements.

TKS:
But is this not a much more rigorous and honest appraisal of one's own culture? I think that it is a healthy sign although it may not make you very comfortable. It is a very frightening process to embark upon, and maybe that is why some do not embark upon such a course for the fear that it might undermine everything. Can I come back to the sculpture seminar which was convened earlier this year? In my view, it was an important, significant occasion because it brought about fresh ways of thinking about art making processes to the public, making such processes transparent, unveiling them so as to remove mystification. It also was an attempt to bring artists closer to the audience, establishing a rapport with the audience. I think all these are very necessary actions. Can you tell me what you think was achieved during those two weeks?

TDW:
We reached certain levels of achievement during the whole seminar. We touched on many things. For instance the use of natural material like wood; is it criminal to do so? We finally decided that no, we were using it for a good cause, and that you are really promoting an awareness. We touched on aspects of art theory, particularly with stimulations. We touched on what stage of art making you should show and we all decided to show more of the process. So we have benefitted from this. We decided that communication is most important, otherwise you should keep your artwork indoors, even in the drawer. So to show art means you want to communicate, you want to talk. We have done that. Discussion is very important as we learn from each other; we have also to get rid of shyness, get rid of being afraid of making silly statements on what we intend and what is important to us. And the show has given confidence to some of the younger artists. All these are important achievements.

This essay was originally published in Sculpture in Singapore, 53-57. Singapore: National Museum, 1991.